Dr. Korie Grayson is a biomedical engineer, chemical engineering researcher, and a diversity advocate in STEM. She is a proud alumna of Norfolk State University where she earned her BS in Chemistry (2012). Korie obtained her MS (2017) and PhD (2020) in Biomedical Engineering from Cornell University. Currently, Korie is a postdoctoral research fellow at the University of Michigan in Chemical Engineering. Her research will focus on the evaluation of novel nano- and microparticles for therapy in neutrophilic, acute inflammatory disease and cancer.
Recently, Korie received the honor of making the “2020 List of Influential African American Women to Follow on LinkedIn” and the “1000 Inspiring Black Scientists in America” list. Dr. Grayson is passionate about increasing the number of underrepresented minorities in STEM by illustrating that representation matters. She is the Diversity Chair for @womendoingscience, a popular IG account that showcases women in STEM from all over the world. She is also on the planning council for STEMNoire, a holistic wellness and research retreat for Black women in STEM.
Korie continues doing advocacy work via workshops and public speaking engagements while redefining the image of WHAT A SCIENTIST LOOKS LIKE! Korie is a proud member of the Biomedical Engineering Society, National Society of Black Engineers, and Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
In this episode, we discuss the process and the challenge of pursuing a PhD. Dr. Grayson talks about the Black, female scientists she was exposed to along the way that encouraged her to become a scientist. Are you or someone you know interested in earning a PhD? Then this is the episode for you!
TBDPis a volunteer passion project with the goal of inspiring all who listen. In-house music and audio production, so any ideas for improvements or suggestions for future guests are welcome.
If you are thinking about starting your own podcast, check out my30 Minutes To Podcast masterclasson my website www.StevenBradley,MD.com
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Transcription
Let up i t i, like the stories of my are professional. The lisping like me here subscribe sherman. The next generation can be. We don’t and every monday to hear our stories. Look back to back is podcast and speaking with dr cory grayson, she is currently leading her post doctor, the university of michigan and chemical engineering. Prior to this, she graduated from marbut state university with a degree in chemistry and then went on to frenel where she earned her phd and biomedical engineering. Dr grayson, thank you so much regarding this on the show. Thank you so much for having me and i’m onorina your first p d. L i’m excited to dive in also, let’s dive right in so where did it all begin? When did you decide to go into so on a good question, and i get back that often, and i always help people like minabe, it was late. I wish i was one of those kids like yeah, a chemistry set, or i looked up at the stars every night when i was a kid with my parents and new, or i just had this thing, but now honely in the beginning, i really kind of just loving through school, moving to academics on only even in high school. I really didn’t like a gloss ready to get out of there anything i could do like please just let me leave and go do something else. You know just live a different time, but we got to we got to edit this part out of the show. At last we got to be encouraging the youth because i feel like some of tottery, but to me it wasn’t until later. So actually i got to high school my few years of my guy, an conta put me in a whole bunch of ap courses. So you know your senior you want to relax and, like kind of you know, skip school or just only do half to day, but no. I was in there all day every day, taking a pchees ry, a ptake and ap literature and actually had to my all three of those teachers were very kind of enthusiastic as well as provides different confidence boots and saying that we could do an excel in these like different areas. But my chemistry teacher really was like this young vibrant woman. That just like was super excited about chemistry, and so i think that was when i first initially had a life game towards that. I guess science are particularly tam filled, but it wasn’t to talk at the college and actually start off as a biology major. But i took a general chemistry course, and the professor in that course had like a very profound impact on me and she i actually took the concept. We were learning and applied into a real ize situation, which is why i love to me street so for her. It was like you know. What do you take from this and extra pie to your real life? So do you know what’s in a relax or how relax or works breaking down the i all five on in your hair? You know, because at the time walking for lack people aren’t nate yeah right or did you know how trees works or do you know you know, that’s a creasing point depression. Do you know how this works and how this applies to this? Then it really made me look at science at something like oh okay, because actually does have real applications that i can use in my life, and so i end up switching my major to chemistry because of her. She was super confident all of like five feet: war, hill ter. We had a class, i don’t know how she did it, but she just had this like six foot, seven personality that really fenore the students and including me to just be, as as i guess, a vulnerable, but also as a curious about the world as we could be choose to say this thing like you know, even when i’m wrong, i’m right and we at first. I never really got that thing, but she was telling us she has. So much confidence what she does that, even if she says or does something wrong, you’re going to believe that she’s right. So she was hard on us in that class that she knew the world was going to be a partner. So that was actually my first reason in july that i got into them and stayed well. So representation really does matter, i the really die, and so, like i said i was bubbling around in the beginning for a minute, but you know i found my path and sometimes it takes those people of mentor that see something specific in you and pull that out of you or to help. You change your direction to where you’re supposed to be on your path and do that influence your decision to get involved currently with women doing science yeah, so women doing science is a popular ig. Account pays where we future women literally come all over the world just to comprecation visibility of women in them, because it is very mound dominated so being a part of that they wanting to help diversify and show that there are different types of women that look all different. Kiind of ways that come from all different kind of backgrounds that are in them and in these fields that we don’t normally see it really helps with showing that representation does matter, whether you know you’re, a young girl or even an older person, really to see women doing things that you normally would to change that narrative and change that perception. So i mean that was kind of a bradock on that, but that didn’t happen until maybe like twenty seventeen thousand and eighteen. But yes, i think i carry some of this sentiments from my general can teacher as far as her being a representational, but i could be, and taking that page and showing or representation the younger out of what they could be. Why i am following this instagram account. Please do we’re doing some excited in. We are doing a travel, find grant for i pack or a black condition of people of color to attend earth and go science is conferences and trosiener ship, so we’re currently in the fundraising process for that as well, which is super exciting. Let’s go back to norfolk state that i love to talk about the hp experience is so many the folks i’ve been able to talk to have had such an incredible rewarding experience. So what led you to attend norfolk state university, and what was your experience? Is there right? So when i actually was applying the colleges by good old guide counsel again, she made me applied to a whole bunch of different school to like fourteen or fifteen, and north of state was one of them. I actually got into all of the schools and received over four hundred thousand and polishes, and so be my mom we did for and we did visited some of the different schools and my actually top school was emory. But after having like a real conversation about finances and what that meant at that time, especially being a first generation student, i realized moti state was the best choice for me, which was actually the school down the street, because they were the only college that gave your fore ride to do them. So that was a major decision and why i show marters university and literally one of the best decisions, because being in a space where you can have people that can relate to, you is literally live changing and also that looks like you, so we were either first generation. Maybe low income may be high income for sis in our family. I had this relation or way we could relate to each other, that i don’t think normally would be met from time that a pwior institution, yeah and so again, having like i met my best friends and college, was a roommate with them shovel through general chemistry with them analytical physical, organic, all those chemistries. But yet we would still, you know, go part, go to a hot box, a foot box, you know, go, go out, go live like go to the beach because is where we were in norwold, and you know just have yeah those type of thing in that culture there and there’s just that. Uplooking thing that you normally wouldn’t always give like i’ll tell you all the time i felt my family members and when i went to school, whether it was talking to the gen toal staff or my teacher in the director of my program, for even just people in my class. You know i saw my cousin’s mom, my aunt by uncles. I saw everybody so in that familiarity that comfort and also that cultural competency. This makes you feel more confident in who you are a person and definitely made me who i am at the time. Just always tell people hbt experience is like no other experience and if you weren’t able to go, that’s okay go to a home. Coming, that’s a cur yeah go just make sure you go to the the best umcool on earth up at howard, university. Okay, i’ve been one, you know and you guave good show the projection quality i’ll give it. You know a good quality, but nothing like a north stay home coming, we very intimate, but we still get a poet i’m not to that out there. So all right, we’ll put it on, put it on the list. Definitely you shit r grason coming out of norfolk state. You are looking to go into hd graduate program. How was that process for you o that again wasn’t a very straightforward process and i don’t know, make my asthetic iou, but i actually graduated geting. I was going to go to med school. I applied to dp program, didn’t get into any of them. Realized medical school, wasn’t really a dream or a passion of mine, because i had shadowed an old ian for like the end of my new year and realize, like. I don’t think i can do this. I really all do this in my calling, and so i kind of struggle for the first year after i graduated, and i worked a lot of modern jobs. I worked at nats out. The sun trust us trying to basically like survive, and then, after that i actually was lucky. I had a job that a bi medical device company paul kale life in kanata georgia. They had a satellite office off the campus or ne other campus in george tech. So i worked there for almost a year doing the assembling and manufacturing of the heroa or like a dallas, is graph that patients use when they have undergone to talantatos is so. It was basically a day to day process the ma tatrang assembling this whole three components of the device. But while i was there, i realized in order to kind of rise in the ranks at that company. I either had to be there for a long time or i had to get a higher degree. So my kind of choice was, let me overhead and get either a masters or pc or something. So i end up up applying to different pst programs. Instead of a whole. Butt like i did for ngati did three and then luckily cornell was one, and they said yes, and after that i quit my job moved to etion york, and then i started my grass school program and that had its own challenges, also because i was a chemistry manager. I didn’t have an engineering background, so i spent a good portion of my phd taking basic or intro engineering classes to kind of gain. That engineering background that most time people have, and so again i would like to tell people like you know what this is. The plan is what i did. I was straight there i feel, like my journey, had a lot of ups and downs and moments of like i guess where i was looking for clary on a super purpose and eventually found it and i’m still finding you like yeah here i am at a post box, but who knows what the journey nor what lies the head and how that man change, but i’m just open to what life has to me or where i need to go and kind of where it’s calling me. Thank you. I learn something every episode and so for i’ve learned how to pronounce a itica there you go, i’ve been calling it. I tacked up my whole life so and then it’s a good new york is way different from atlanta georgia way different from any speedos a star different and so also having that, being, i guess a part of my journey and like transitioning into a place where now i am the minority and dealing with different things like micro pressions. Are you not reating repetation that you normally would, i think, just had a big impact on me and one of the reasons why so adamant about showing their representation matters and advocate for people, especially unrepining in stem to be in this space, because i was in the face on pans, where i didn’t always see it. So that’s a lot of where my passion kind of comes from absolutely it’s so incredibly important. So you got into this phd program, i’m under the impression that hd programs are re or there’s some funding. Could you explain more about that sure so for most stem fuse to programs and those are usually rooted in the par like physical sciences, the funding is usually provided by the graduate school and also either your advisor or those fellowships and grants. So basically ou wanting do a phd in that bill. You can basically get it done for free now, master is not so much using massive programs. You have to case for, but pd programs are usually funded, your funded somehow some way and, like i said you can also do like a graduate sisteme or teaching system ship either way just got to get paid for. I was lucky enough to get two fellowships, the anfre p and as love after salter piece con to that offered me six years of funding to where my advisor didn’t have to taste. For me, the only thing he put in quote i get paid for was like the research tools and instruments and stuff that i use, but far as my styan and what i lived off of, i had fellowship that help with that. How did you get those fellowships by five so before i actually started grad school? My friend dr viron, he told me like you, need a pi to you, know nsf and i was like okay, but i’m not in go her like that’s fine, you don’t have to be so. I just applied kind of made up my own search project on the spot and i ended up getting it before. I started grad school and a side, the cornel, the graduate research assistant that was basically kind of helps, run the program she’s like you need to fly to the phone fellowship to she like. I really think you would get it and i’m like, i don’t want to do any more applications, but she’s like no apply, and so i applied talk so and when i got in and they said okay, you also got this fellowship as well, so it was really someone again mentors telling me what i needed to do, how i needed to do it and i did it and then i ended up getting that funding. So when you hit the ground running you, don’t you don’t know what your thesis project, because it’s going to be correct. So how did that transpire during the years of your study? So it can happen in a number of ways. For me. Did i know at the inning what my pieces was going to be now just some people have more of an idea. They come in with the project that their pi has a mind for them or already have funding for yes, so it can happen in a different kind of ways. So for me, at the time i i didn’t have a specific specific project. I wanted me to work on, so it was kind of me figuring out things that i was interested in and where direction back and go in that you know eventually did have one new or would happening for it. So my even my thesis proposal, and so you do suppose it when you propose to your committee like hey. This, is what i’m going to do for my phd. This is what i have collected. Those bars you know here is just basically the work that i’ve done and what i think i will go do in the future ever my thesis that a is totally different from my actual descent. This is change. The idea that you have may not actually work. You have to kind of tip it into a different direction and you know also can depend on hunting directions and not changing as well. So again what i proposed that my thesis supposed, which was protein engineering, ended up not being what my dissertation was with cancer drug existence to totally different things, some of the same elements but a different product. But i was super happy. I’m proud of this work because he’s a lot of the work that i did in got of myself with the help of my advisor. But again you can tip it can change. So i tell people all e time: don’t get to sometimes investing in a project and be able to shift and pivot towards something that you know is more likely to work or that will you do the result to graduate, because at the end of the day, the point of getting the phd not hang in to yourself, o and e. You know it’s really to just get that work on at acknowledge to the build and then getting the phd at the end of it. So that’s kind of how it works for some people, some people with a little bit more soother some you have to be a little bit more innovative and creative, just a top at some time. So for you, how long did it take you to earn your phd? And what would you say to students that may be worried about the link of time that they take? So for me, it took five years and ten months to the day i defended two hundred and twenty shisen and an hour long. These suspects was about a thirty minute, afterward, a close defensor. Where i answered questions for my committee members and honestly, i mean that’s a long time right, yeah, but i had to for six years. So i was okay with that, but it’s usually averages about five to six years and the bees build it could be longer. It could be shorter depending on what sold your in, but that’s, usually the average five to six. I knew that going in and so i know a lot of people. I love it’s a long time and but it really flies by next. You know, year after year, you’re you know doing better or your experiment now, working or maybe you have a different, you know change and passions or project idea. You’re doing collaborations your publishing papers, you’re, doing cope, presentations and next thing on now six years, a time yes, but then good, i would say that ch is one of the biggest up discorea. You can go on so those five years. Ten months was definitely the moment where i became the most effare, the most cognizant of my personal space, personal time self care, as also you know, my limits, my abilities, my strength, my leadership skills. I just so many different things that i probably wouldn’t have been that aware of. If i hadn’t gone through this process or any kind of know, graduate school process, so people that think like, oh so she s such a long time and for me six years to go, the phd is worth it because i feel like afterwards, i kind of writ my own ticket and i can do whatever i want to do, go wherever i want to go after this. So it’s not too much about the time. I think it’s more about the experiences and the journey about what you can do in this field, and it doesn’t always have you limited to research. I mean i definitely want rin jobs. While i was doing in phd, i was the elam grab, poi nater. I worked with unrepeated students and try to get them. You know excited about grad, school or women on to different other parts of our life. Haven’t didn’t dorm, that was free housing for email plans. You know trying to save money and then just so many different things. I started off doing when e doing science and the semer i just d. This whole time period allowed me to talk to pursue my different passions as well as do my research. So i don’t look at so much as a time frame. It’s just more about a journey and about something that you want to do and that you want to accomplished an i’m, not a lot and in to my pelle no is want for coutomer leave alone. Now yeah, i’m proud of it. If something one of the great achievements of my life so far, and it’s something now that i can show that other people can do it, bausi can do it, they can, and so i get messages all the time and i want to go in and buy a medical engineering because of you or i’m inspired, and i want to do this program. Or can you tell me about his program? But in which is the reason why i do it and i talked about it, so it’s more a bigger picture, it’s more than just me in my personal journey or how much time i’m spending it’s about showing women men, minorities that you know they can do it too yeah step by step and all those winds that you have along the way kind of encourage you to keep going right right exactly as lot my mom, my mom stays on me, even as i’m thirty, i doesn’t let up shut up to mom wheil we be without our mother. I right so coming out of cornell. You successfully defended your thesis, your dissertation your hour and a half, and then you moved on to where you’re at currently university of michigan were completing a post dock in chemical engineering. Could you explain the concept of post doctoral work and what your future plans are yeah. So, with a post tock, you are basically doing work post, your doctoris, but what it is is more of like a training position to get you ready for transitioning an toatin, so you know longer have the worries of like color mean certain requirements for how you did in your doctor program, but now you’re like a full time researcher. But the thing that gets added on your play is now you’re writing craft our trying to get funding for your own projects, which is the beginning of how a lab gets established. So it’s trying you to go into that type of academia of starting at you know an assistant professor associate professor going to being tenure. Well, professor, that kind of process. So i wasn’t necessarily going through o this crowd, but i had a conversation with my new and current pi lola in el atossa, and i just i loved her energy love, the project love talking to the lab and having conversation with them about their work, and that pushed me to go in this direction and come to university in michan, and also the fact that my adviser is a black woman and we can relate on that. And so i can just to see. Someone that looks like me relate to me doing her thing and the chemical engineering bimetal engineering filled. This is a huge draw for me and letting me know my journey kind of isn’t done in academia yet altho. Who knows what will happen, but you know it’s just a mumment in a period to me, it’s kind of pesse out whether i really want to stay, and i can deem me and go the professor route or move on to something else, but in all that’s pretty much what it postals we’re going to definitely stay tuned to see where you end up and will be follow along well, post. Your links to your socials in the show notes, but a top of everything you do you make time to share this knowledge information through different speaking engagements and workshops that you put on. Could you tell us more about those sure sure? So i definitely have a few spacing topics and things that i’m super passionate about. One of them is self advocacy and practicing that instamatic, and so i feel a lot of time. People have a hard time. Actually you know dealing but consels and advocating for themselves and so way that you can go about doing. That is one first guy. I get to know yourself. Who are you? What are things that are the identifiers? You know that make you who you are then, knowing your need thing our values and then lastly, knowing how to get them and use to my favorite part of that talk, and sometimes i do a workshop- is giving people real life examples and ways in order to better advocate for themselves, and so once they can actually put that into practice. Things like different michel, aggressions or mamas were they feel inadequate. Are they still even bullies? They could have the proper tool to be like hey. This is unacceptable. I shouldn’t be treated like this or just different ways to deal with computation, and so that’s one project in one speaking time. I have super passion about and i do taking gates and works tofton that all the time ways another one is ways you can plan every power, especially doing that as a personal color. What that looks like i, and also my personal journey and story, as well as being a first generation student and how to navigate. You know this world that is around, for you know hundreds of years, and so these are just a few things that, like the to talk about and kind of really infuse my personal journey and how that shaped me and give people as much advice as i can, and even communication with that looks like science communication, how to communicate your project to a late audience. So i talked to middle spoolers. I talked to elementary schoolers and as well as high school, is about my research, but i do it in a way that they can relate to it or understand it, or in though that you know of the practice as well. These are the some of the things i have brewing and currently brewing and always open to you know doing more. I realize i, although i use to have a fear of speaking in high school, like you know how your voice is like super high and pitches out. I wat you to do that, but now i’ve become more season and realize it’s important to share your message and not keep it hid in my journey is not just for me. It’s for everybody and it’s my story to share with everyone, and so i do that to these you know different as avenues, and so i’m always super excited to speak. You know to an audience that is so true and so very important, and i know this very short: podcast episode doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of your story and your journey and your struggles and your successes. So for folks interested, you know, definitely they should contact you what’s the best way to get in touch with you regarding these workshops or speaking engagements or the best way to my website at a cor grason on the top of following me on instagram, twitter isn’t have a little tick tock, although i’m not that active on it. But media is team cortar and you can also follow me on lint in there as well. So i’m on the different social data diversify. But you know these are all the ways you can see what i’m doing when i’m doing and how i’m doing awesome and then you’re also a couple of side things that you do is the stimatore i kind of picked up after doing women doing science, the cofound or tulon or dr bishop resout me, and basically, what that is, is a research in holistic wildness conference for black women in stems, you know. Sometimes we don’t always been a woman’s face or in the minority space. So it was great to kind of cultivate and create a conference they to us and for us and sure rated for us, so we’re actually in the planing fates of that now and it will be convening this summer on june, twenty four through the twenty six, and so people want to register and present at that. That’s amazing also black and cancer. So black and cancer is a part of the black and ex movement that happened over the summer when we were having our social justice issues and black lives matter being revamped, and so that was a basically show showcase thing kind of strengthening our networks, specifically of black cancer researchers, doctors, patient survivors and just or talking about or as a cancer or research, some of the myths and things that kind of go along that affect the black community or black population. So super tim about that. So in great things happening the black and campasoe tune and then the last one is sent, except on it, societes on it as a virtual kind of conference that we do. But this is specific for a young adult age of eighteen. Thirty five last year we had two thousand attendees or ritien, and we had a very what i call a high conference. Okay, this is your typical conference. We had dj, we had musical than professional. We had to e. I leave from fresh prince top, we had ages and do who this marathon star, with nixt hustle talk. They also did be on dat website for iv park made that virtual reality. We have some heavy hero, and so we’re super excited about this year. We just now, then doctor because mekake, who is the lead for the maderna vaccine nih, and so we’re about to have a few more figures and we’re trying to come even harder this year. So those are jar, some of the things that i’m a part of you know that again kind of spread. That message of you know representation matters and we need to increase the diversity as well as some of the funds that happens with them. That is incredible, love the work that you’re doing and the explosion you’re bringing to the field, dr corbett she’s been amazing. Obviously i found out about her with coved and and all the stuff that she’s doing you posted about her recently and i died laughing some hot, a you guys are on a call. Yes, we were having a call about conference and she felt comfortable enough to get on with her body and i loved it because you know we don’t know e comfortable, we know being a dolt este otenti and that’s he. She felt like me in that day and i totally appreciate understand my hair was in a moneten lern minute later, so yearn yea love to see it so happy. You share that moment with everybody, because that’s you know, that’s really what it’s all about is. We are regular people antedate everything else, exactly exactly my hat a or monicongo r grason. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I truly enjoyed picking your brain and hearing your story and i will definitely be posting all the links and the jodo and encourage anybody interested please reach out as questions sign up for this step near conference, and you know looking to having her come, speak to your organization or recommend. If you speak to an organization that you know is looking for some encouragement and motivation, and thank you, my moaks podcast, not from the bon asnore