Show Notes
This episode features Dr. Tonia Farmer, an Otolaryngologist, Head and Neck Surgeon and owner of The Lippy Group. She shares how a tragic family situation led her to become a physician. Dr. Farmer was the first woman ENT resident at her program and she talks about some of the challenges she had to overcome along the way. Her hard work paid off as she was recruited to a very prestigious practice, which she currently leads.
Dr. Farmer talks about her passion for mentoring young Black students and giving them a taste of what a medicine has to offer. She also works with medical students, residents and fellows, which shows the incredible impact one can make even working with a private practice.
We wrap up by talking about Dr. Farmer’s business endeaver, “Salt Me!” which offers the benefits found in pink Himalayan sea salts to patients suffering from sinus congestion and a host of other ailments.
If you or someone you know is interested in a career an Ear Nose and Throat surgeon, please listen to and share this episode. If you receive value from the show, please share, subscribe and leave a comment.
TBDP is a volunteer passion project with the goal of inspiring all who listen. In-house music and audio production, so any ideas for improvements or suggestions for future guests are welcome. Visit www.StevenBradleyMD.com to learn more about our host. He is available for consultations or speaking engagements regarding health equity and medical ethics.
Transcription
The black doctor’s talk hilik the stories of minority professionals with the goal and inspiring others you like, we, you hear to subscribe and share with entete next generation. You can be with you, don’t see in every monday to hear our stories and then welcome back to black doctors podcast this week, i’m so i get to be taken with or tonia farmer. He is a porn certified autorial and next surgeon, riant surgeon or he trained and regina komono university is where she completed medical school as well as her residency. She currently practices at her group, the libby group in ohio, mice, farmer, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. So much for happy man and vitiate so so excited to hear about your practice. So as an intern in an atesia actually spent one month. One rotating with the nt surgeons, but talk to us tell me about your day to dame practice as a ants yeah, so emt. When, with an itesa yeah, we probably interact a lot right with the mtv share that year that we share the air way. We definitely share the air way, but my i’m a general odelet here in ohio, i’ve seen adults and i see children in my practice as well. So i split my time, of course, between the office and the operating room. So a day of my life really starts at home. I always when i get to work. I always come my step. I feel like i’ve worked ten hours already, because i have three girls so my day, usually my my first job starts her at home. You know getting that ready, thank goodness we’re going into the summer break. So that’s given me a little bit of a break from that, but it starts here at home with my three girls and my husband and then off to the office. Typically, my my office days start around between eight and eight thirty and my or days start at at seven thirty. So in the office i see anywhere between thirty five and forty patients a day. If i’m there for a whole day. If i’m there for half a day, then i split my time and go to the operating room and do cases, of course, as a surgeon i prefer to be in the accuratius ah, but i do all kinds of cases from you know: kids, with tonsils and adnoids and tubes, all the way up to the bigger head in that cases with fioretti and i rogatists and neck masses and cancer surgery, e etc. Most of what erno and throat surgeons do is out patient, so the blessing is that i own my own surgery center. So most of what i do is right out of my surgery center out patient, but if i do have cases that require an overnight stay or more complicated than i will go to our local hospital where i operate out of it’s so interesting and what are some of the more common complaints that you see the biggest complaints i see because listen. I live in northeast ohio in the midwest, so it is true when they say this is like the sinus belt of america. So i see a lot of sinusitis and allergies. I see a lot of sinus disease. Probably my practice is probably really heavy heavily based on silus and allergy. I also have a an allergy clinic at my office, so i’m able to do all of my own allergy testing diagnosed that as well as provide the treatment. So we do our own iman of therapy and allergy shots for our patients. So i i pride myself and saying that we really give comprehensive care to the patient at my practice. In addition, you know to sinus stuff- i also you know, do quite a bit of thyroid ecii surgery. Right now, on the only arnos and throat surgeon in town, we had another arnos, an throat surgeon who retired he was not in our practice. He had his own private practice, but he retired about seven or eight months ago, so i’ve become the only arnos and throat surgeon here which has made the practice quite busy. I do there’s another doctor in my practice, who is the otologist, so he does all of the major ears stuff, but as far as all of the head and next stuff, the mickmakis, the sinus disease, etc that all that all comes to me. So it does make for a busy practice. Well, t sounds like it and how many days of the week are you in the operating room? How many cases do you ever to do right now, i’m in the operating room two days a week and i’m in the office two days it kind of works out to about three to four days that i’m working, which is less down a little bit than it was pre coved and that’s made it even more busy pre co vid. I was you know in the office four days a week now, i’m in the office about three days a week and that’s simply because after ovid my my partner and i decided that we would work opposite in the office because it was just too many patients coming through the practice. At the same time, so we were trying to adhere to protocol. In addition, we have three nurse practitioners in our office, so that tells you how busy we are, because it’s it’s myself and a otologist as well as three nurse practitioners. You know to get it done, so i’m in the office about an any office who one and a half days and then i’m in the operating room a whole day and a half so one and a half days on my all day in the operating room. It really depends on which case i’m doing if it’s a bigger case, like maybe a big sinus case that will take a couple hours versus the smaller quake cases like tubes and tonsils, and that noise, but i can do anywhere from about five to twelve cases on a wednesday just depending on what the mix of cases are and in my office, like i said anywhere from thirty to forty patients, you know in a day yet t s, that’s busy who do you operate with? Do you have purses or pas? I do. I have a scrub nurse who operates with me. So that’s typically what i, what i do, i don’t have any residents at all. I did i did have fellows about a year ago, our hospital system here steward health. They have a program in boston and so they contacted me. The headed neck department contacted me and asked me what i’d be willing to take some fellows. So i was training fellows pre coved. I haven’t had any fellows during the co bit pandemic, so that will probably start up in a bit where i will have a fellow. So it’s nice when you have a solo with you because they operate they can round. You could say, hey, go see this concept. For me, you know. So when you don’t have a fellow, it all falls on you. But when i operate pretty much, i do operate out patient when i’m out pation. I operate with my scrub nurse when i’m at the hospital. The hospital does have a certain general surgery residency program. So if i’m there doing a thybris, i’m doing a thorough, gassel, duxis or a sub mandibular gland, or i’m doing something like that, then the general surgery residence will be like okay, we’re going to doctor farmer’s room. You know and now and they’ll come in and they will first assist and i’ll take them through the case. You know the other types of surgeries i do like sinus surgery. I really don’t need a general surgery resident, they don’t care about going in the nose and all that they don’t care about that. You know i just need a first assistant nurse to help me pass me some instruments so acalan saw on your website. You do a teaser called a balloon, siding plastic. Could you explain that yeah so balloon sinapati is a really nice technique, think about it like and you plasty for the heart. You know where you’re ballooning, open or dilating clomp blood blood vessel, but in the finest passages, if the opening into the sinus passage is obstructed or narrow. This is a nice technique that has come about where a guide wire is fed through that narrow opening and then a balloon. Catete goes over the wire and that opening is dilated, so you’re getting a microfracture of the bony opening into the sinus versus doing a more traditional, larger, whole type of sinus surgery and physically removing bone and soft tissues. So balloon sinapati is a technique to try to save to you to try to preserve the anatomy, but by dilating open an obstructed binus, it can be used alone or it can be used in combination with other procedures like accept o plastic surgery and, what’s also nice about it, is it can be done in the office. You know under some localunder, some local anesthesia or you can combine it introitv ly under anti sesa with another procedure that you may be doing, because it’s not something that addresses a deviated septum. It doesn’t address enlargement of the turbinate. It’s really fair to open a narrow passage way into the sinus, a yes, very interesting up with more and more advances in the field. Oh my gosh, i think every field you know you come up with advances. I’m sure there’s things like that in anesthesia that they’ve come up with, like the glide scope right ye stile a lot easier. It makes things a lot easier. I love the glico, so dr farmer talk to us about when you decided to become a physician, so my story when i wanted to become a physician girls all the way back to when i was seven years old. When i was seven years old, i had a twin sister. I am a twin was a twin and at the age of seven, my twin sister, her name was sonya, i’m tonia. She was sonya. She was diagnosed with metastatic ostel sarcoma or bone cancer whoa, and at that time she ended up having a full leg, amputation and hemnip beccame to remove the bone cancer that started in her feme and as a young child. I was exposed to a hospital very early on because i was in and out of the hospital with my mom and with my sister as she got her treatment, but two years of really badling cancer. She passed away and, as i say, she was healed in heaven of her cancer but being exposed to that, seeing the doctors and how the doctors scared for my sister, but they also cared for us as a family, recognizing that there was a twin sister here involved and- and i think because it was, it is a pediatric field. You know it was pediatric oncology, pediatric surgery, etcetera, who was dealing with their family. They were, of course, more aware of sort of that interaction and that that mental wear on a young child, so i felt like they took me in and i went round with the doctors. You know, of course i don’t know that that would happen today. You know just the way. The way things are, but at that time all that time ago i would go on little rounds with them and hang out with the doctors and they put a step oscot around my neck, and you know that was an impression that left an impression on me, and so i said i want to be a doctor just like these doctors who cared for my my sister and for our family. I want to be there for families when they are in need, and you know at a crisis in their life and help them through it, just like they did for us. So that started my journey on becoming a doctor and i never looked back. It was every step of the way. No, no diversions. No, no! You know, let’s take a little break here. Nope it was boom boom boom boom every single step until i became a doctor so at william, an mary where you went for undergrad. What was your major imagine in biology a major in biology at waima married and what was your experience in undergrad and applying to medical school? You know my. I had a really good experience actually applying to undergraduate and to medical school, because i feel, like tae, put people in my life that needed to be in my life at that time, and i feel like he’s always positioned me where i need to be, and in high school i had an amazing guidance counselor, a white man named mr lubango, who literally staves in touch with me even to this day he’s an older gentleman now and you know, he’ll, send me christmas cards and things like that, but he was invested felt like he was invested in my well being at that time in high school, and he was the one who pushed me to go to wayman mary. I was looking at the university of virginia. I was looking at weyman mary because of his dietes and at the time a guy that i was dating at the time was going to uva. So, of course you know me i’m like. Oh i’m going to uva. You know because that’s where my boyfriend is and he’s like. No i’m like you need to go to we marry so i went to concentrate there. You go so i did go to waman mary made the best decision going there and it was a good experience. You know it’s a bigger black student population right now, but at the time it was a smaller black student population. But what made that nice is because it was a smaller population of black students, everyone we were all tight. We were all close and you know really supported each other, so i had a goood experience through college. As far as that’s concerned, you know, did i come across some professors who were na sayers and not supportive? Absolutely you know all through high school. I got phenomenal grade. You know graduated number two in my class and you know going to college. I felt like it should be the same and you know you get to college and it’s a big awakening right, a root awakening and it was much harder than high school, and so i remember my first biology test and i got a sheet on the test. When i tell you, i went back to my dorm room and i cried my eyes out all day over this seat like what what she so the professor called me to his office and said to me you know what do you want to do with your life, and i said i want to be a doctor and he told me i was not smart enough to be a doctor. There was no way i was going to be a doctor, because i got a see on this test and i needed to rethink my major and rethink what i wanted to do with my life. You know and of course i had a little bit of a pity party. You know over what he said, but then it was like. No i’m not i’m not going to accept your version of me. You know, and so that really encouraged me to say. Okay, tony, let’s get on it, you know, let’s get on it here, you know and that kind of changed everything for me to to really focus on. Listen. Let’s remember what your dream is, you know and get back on track, and i did so. You have just have to push through those challenges because you’re going to have people like that who come into your life, especially when you’re a black student who’s trying to do something so, but then i went on to college. Excuse me to medical school up the road to richmond at the at the time it was called the medical college of virginia i’m starting to at myself here. You know when one of look when a medical school changes, their name right, you know, are you agin yourself, so it was called the men, the virginia comonwelth medical medical college of virginia mcb at the time, and now it’s called virginia commonwealth university school of medicine. So but again there was a tight it group of black students at the medical school and mr tucker was a gentleman who was there who was really in charge of you know just the school diversity for the kid for the black students and really helping us navigate the challenges of getting into medical school. So i was blessed than that. In that sense, and i excelled the medical school, i absolutely excelled the medical school. I was determined on the first day of medical school that i was going to be top in my class and i was going to be inducted into a a or alfama alfa, which is the honor society and medical school, and i did just that as a third year medical student and was in the top five percent of my class, and by doing that i remember the head of that anatomy, professor, which here’s a spoiler alert to everyone. Here i hate it. I hated head and mechanai in medical school hated it. It was so hard. I had to study so hard for it, and i was just like this sucks like head and neck anatomy shucks, and here i am as a head and next surgeon right, the things that challenge us. We must embrace them right. So that’s how i got into the field of arnos and throat, because i really wanted to be an obgyn, my whole entire life until i got to medical school. So so what made the change for you? When did you decide to go into you know, i all my life, don’t ask me why i wanted to be an obgyn. No one in my family is in the medical field. We don’t have doctors and nurses in our medical in our family. It’s not a heavy profession at all, no doctors at all, but for some reason, my brain as a child. I just said i want to do obgyn, so, even through high school and college, i went volunteer at the local hospital on the maternity ward because i just knew that’s what i wanted to do and when i was in my third year of medical school, and i did my ob rotation, i was like. Oh no. This is not what i want to do no way at all, and you know i think, being exposed really exposed to the field. You know not just being on the maternity ward and playing with the babies and stuff. You know i really realized. No. This is what this field is all about, and i just felt like. No, that’s not that’s not what i want to do. I at the time i was even thinking ahead of lifestyle, and you know babies come when they want to come. You know, and do i want that lifestyle so n? I actually went to my head and the professor, dr si bel and said you know doctor set down because he was also kind of like the class kind of counselor. I guess you could call him you know and not in addition to being the head and that professor, but i said dr sadel i’m at a loss now i thought i wanted to do obgyn and these words he said to me. He said tony. He said you can do whatever you want to do. You are toping your class. You were topping your class, you are aoa, you can go into any field, you want to you name it. You got it. So i said really he’s like absolutely look at them more. You know challenging look at the more competitive fields like a themal, gy and ent and dermatology look at some of the more competitive residencies, and so that’s what i did. I looked at. You know some of the more competitive residencies at at the time. My my aunty, you know we all have a favorite auntie right, so my favorite auntie, my favorite anti nina she’s, a hair stylist in new jersey, which is where i was raised. I was talking to her about you know hamina, you know, i don’t know what i want to do, i’m thinking about looking into some fields like ent, etc, and she was like et hey one of my clients. Her husband is a ent surgeon in philly. So that is what made me say: okay, well, let me contact him and i contacted him and asked him. Could i come and do a rotation with him in philly and he was agreeable and i went and rotated with him for a month, and it was amazing it was the best i just gravitated towards ent and said this is the field for me and that’s what you know made me make my decision to enter the match program for ent. How was the residency program for you? Phone residency was interesting. Okay, residency was great, it was it was. It really was a good experience, but here’s why it was interesting. First of all, the tcu school of medicine or mc v at the time, otolaryngology head neck residency program had never had a female resident in their program before so i was the first female resident they had ever taken, not first female black, look first female ever that they had in their program which, at the time when i applied you know when i went into the match, i didn’t realize that i didn’t realize that until after i actually matched it, you know started the program like you guys have never had a woman, you know so it it did, make things interesting. You know it did make things interesting, because i remember one one incident where i was learning. We were learning how the drill a mastoid and we were doing a coclea implant. We were learning how to do coclea implants, which is an elect eleen implant that you place into the inner ear, to help with those who have very profound hearing loss, and so our professor, the otologist dr susman, at the time as a resident, you start the case. You get down to a certain point and you know, then you call you know the attending in who will go through the rest of the case with you, so i just kept pushing the boundaries and pushing and pushing and pushing and doing more and more and more before i would have him called, and i remember one day he came into the or because i didn’t have him called when i guess he thought. Maybe he should have gotten a call. You know, or it was time for him to come in so he comes in and he sees how much i have done. You know, and you know he’s like wow okay, you know so he allowed me to insert the electrode into the inner ear, which usually that’s what the attending did, and this is at that time. If things have changed, things may have changed, but at that time the attending heat he as the attending would put the actual electrode into the inner ear. So he allowed me to do that and some of the other residents were like. Oh, he just favors you because you are good, you know you know, and it’s like no it’s because i’m that good, you know, o you know, or i would i would get things like. We had a patient who, at the time, was coming in for surgery and it was a it was like, maybe a thirteen or fourteen year old girl who was coming in to get her tonsils out. But of course you know you do your pregnancy test, preachen, her pregnancy test came back positive and so they’re, like who’s who’s, going to tell who’s going to tell her who’s going to tell the family santony you’re a girl sense. Is it that it falls up me because i’m the woman, you know you know so different things like that. You know, but nothing, nothing serious or nothing that i felt was really sexist. You know i knew that they were playing around and whatever i never took it as a serious sexist. You know type of incident. I think we’re more incidents that i experienced as a resident were more racial. You know more racist as a resident, then sexist yeah and some some mostly by patients and some, but i had one attending who i was going on vacation and you know how. Well i don’t know, dr maybe you know you know how, as women do us black women. Do you know if we go in on vacation and we going away to the to the sea or to the island or something you know we got to get our hair breathed. You know a so right, so i got my hair braided and when i came back from vacation, of course, i wear my braids back pulled back. You know that flowing everywhere, but have to have them pulled back and meet, and this attending told me that my braids were very unprofessional and i should remove them. So that was something that i experienced and, and it’s a whole another story. We could talk about how that affected me as a black woman in natural hair. That’s a whole another discussion that don’t have nothing to do with your goget, but you know that that was an incident. I’ve had i had as a chief resident as a chief resident. You know when you round you’re in charge of rounds, and i remember going into a room. It was an elderly, white woman and her son was there and, as i’m speaking to her and her son and asking questions her son never looked at me, never made eye contact with me and he only answered questions to my junior resident. Who was a white man standing next to me. He would only speak to my junior resident and only respond to him and my junior residents said no, dr farmers, the chief resident this white man, never never addressed me in the for entire time. You know at all you know or times i would go into the room with with elderly white patients and they’d call me girl, hey girl, come here, you know or help me with this girl and at the va and richmond there was a elderly white man who called me a racial slur, which i didn’t even know it. I didn’t hear it, but my attending did and so my attending went in and had words with this gentleman and then came out and told me. I don’t want you to go in there and see him you, don’t you don’t even go in and deal with that. You know it’s there were. There were incidences like that which at the time, i don’t think my fellow residents realized was going on because they were all white men, but i will say this being out of residency. There’s one resident who at the time was a junior resident to me and he was under me as a resident. I think we see he was either one or two years behind me now. I just can’t even remember but he’s up in boston now and he reached out to me he reached out to me and because at some things i was posting on social media and on linton and things like that and he shared an article with me one day. He just said you know tony. I don’t think i really appreciated. Maybe what you went through and i shared some things with him and he was wow, i’m so sorry that you had to experience things like that. Like i never realized it, you know so that that meant a lot to me that, but at the time again, you’re the only one r i m the only black resident, i’m the only black person. So no one else really understands what you’re going through at that time. Yeah and we could go i’m sure on and on and no inall these stories. But you store severe. Absolutely your track record me speaks for itself, but coming out of residency, you were recruited by the dr lippi, who was a world pronoun yeah ent surgeon, you recruited. What do you think stuck out for him to pursue you and and hire you on? I think that just my my ability, my surgical ability, you know, spoke for itself. I also think just my character, you know spoke for itself as well. I had a really good relationship with our chair at the time. Dr sis modes was the chair of the ent department. At the time when i was in residency, i think that he saw my ability. He saw my value and i think that he was also a great catalyst with it. He is also an he’s retired now, but he was a an otologist as well. So i think that he was, he was a great character, witness if we can use that. You know he was a great character, witness for me with dr lippy so, and i also think when i was a chief resident, i literally bumped into dr lippy at an arnos and proeconcessis blossom conference that was in dc every year and i was at the kiosk as a as a chief resident, looking at all of the job postings that they had and dor lippy, and i literally bumped into each other like shoulder to shoulder bumped into each other right got: listen positioning. I said that earlier, i truly believe in positioning, you know and life’s positions, and god position to be there and position dr lippy there for a reason and we bumped into each other- and you know i said. Oh, i’m sorry and i turned, and i looked and i saw i said- oh my oh here, dr lippy, and so he looks at my name tag and he goes you’re a doctor farmer, i’m like you, don’t know me, you just say that so we shut down and we have like a thirty minute conversation. We talked and talked to asked me a lot of questions. I asked him questions and at the end of the conversation, this is a true story, a true story. He says to me, dr farmer, you’re black, and i said yes, dr lippy, i am and i’m wondering to myself where’s this conversation going. You know and he says well, i’m jewish and i said okay and and he he said. I would like to invite you to ohio and tour. The practice see the practice, see what it’s all about, and i want you to know that there is a black population in morin ohio. That would welcome you, because i would never want to go anywhere where there was not a jewish population. That would welcome me- and i thought, okay, that i take that as sincere and genuine. So i came to ohio- and i quote: unquote interviewed you know here and saw the practice etcetera and on that first night, when i got my itinerary from them, there was a dinner. So i was brought to this local restaurant for dinner thinking. I was coming to dinner with the partners of the practice at the time etc, and i walk into this dinner and there’s nothing but black people sitting there. It’s just black people here and i’m like, oh, my goodness, and what he had did- was plant this dinner with local black leaders in the community black pastors some of the black doctors. At the time. The the ceo of one of the hospital systems here was a black man, the vice president of human resources, for the hospital system as a black woman, and he community leaders black community leaders. They were all in this meeting and they were charged with convinced r farmer to come to ohio. I just thought that was amazing, like i just thought that was so genuine, and here i am in ohio, owning the lippi group twenty years later: yeah yeah yeah yeah. So that’s how i got to ohio and that’s how i got to the lippi group was because of that that that is such an amazing, incredible story as true to sorry and you talked about the importance of positioning and so often one of the barriers for under represented minorities, medicine for black people, people of color. We aren’t in those positions to gain this experience, so you spoken when you see about the importance of venters ip. How do you actively mentor students interested in medicine? So i do have a program- and i say it’s informal right now and i’m in the process of turning it into a formal you know, but i have junior and senior high school students as well as medical students who will come and shadow and rotate with me. Now i am a pre sector in one of the medical schools here in ohio, where they’re medical students and then i also get residents who come and rotate through my practice. Okay, so i consider that one thing you know i don’t there they’re, not always black students. I can get some white students and and other nationalities who come through that as coming to rotate with me to get ent experience, but where my heart is you know going now is to students who are not exposed to medicine, who don’t have that exposure or are in a position where they would never be exposed to that. So i think you know being exposed early on is so very important because, just like i was exposed to medicine as a young child. The impression that it made you know on me is important. So now i do have high school, juniors and seniors, who will come and shadow with me black students? I think it’s important for them to see someone who looks like them as well, so that they can say hey. I can’t do that. I have i had a young man who and has been shadowing me for the past couple days, he’s seventeen years old, he’s a going into his senior year of high school, and i do know his mother and but he reached out to me and said i’m thinking about the field of medicine. I don’t know what kind of what i want to do, whether it’s a doctor or nurse or some other kind of thing, but i do know i like to go into the health field. Could i shadow you so he’s been with me this week and he has been with me in the office, seeing patients etc the whole day, and it’s been an amazing experience for me as well as for him just to see how his this the transformation, how he has lit up. You know, and i call the students doctor, you know i call them student doctor, so that’s what i would call him and when we would go in the room- and i would introduce him and say you know this is student. Dr evans he’s shadowing in the office and his stace like lit up like she called me doctor like she called me, dr evan, you know, and so when i would, when i talked to his mom on yesterday on friday, i said to her as i’m talking to her and i just called him dr evans, because i was so used to calling him dr evans in the office over the past two days. She looked at me and she’s like what that, after eve, i said yes, i speak that into his life. I speak those words into his life that he can be a doctor, so she says you know he came home yesterday and told me he wants to be a doctor. That’s what it’s about like this. Oh my co like that is what it’s about like that, just that little exposure. He saw that i can do this. I can do this. I can be a doctor just like that impression. I got when i was so young. So now you know, and he asked me, dr farmer- are there other doctors that think i could shadow and i’m like sure absolutely. I can call, let me see dr come he’s. Our podiatric he’s a black pitiate and factor martin sesa he’s a black orthodontist and dor. You go going. Oh wait, he’s our black neural surgeon and i’m thinking to myself tony you have all this influence. Like you you, these are your colleagues. These are your friends who are black doctors like yes, these young people can shadow with them. So let’s get it together here and get this pro. You know together for these young kids and and so i truly believe that you know god positions you, you know, and sometimes the positions that you go through. You know, as my pastor would say, sometimes those positions are painful, but there’s a purpose for every position so that it puts you into that power that you were supposed to be in. So i truly believe in that. I really do absolutely. I think it’s so important to realize that, whether you work in academics or private practice, there’s always a pathway or an opportunity for you to give that bide. Yes, absolutely yes, and- and we need more- you know this young man, i said: listen, we need more black males in the field of medicine. So yes, dr evans, you will be a doctor, so i’m looking forward to that decking. What i go to his medical school graduation and say i told you so absolutely and selfish log, dr farmer, i can’t talk for an t surgeon without putting in a word for dr elizabeth blair she’s a year, noson throat, surgeon at university of chicago, and she mentored me white woman, former army officer, and she took me under her wing as a president and to this day i talk with dr blair more than any of my anesthesia attending. She just erally means the world to me, absolutely amazing, human being. I think that that’s so important what you said and having a mentor and and it’s important for young medical students even before you get to medical school, to have a mentor. You know there’s so many great programs now for premed students to get plugged into so that you can get that medical mentor to help you navigate. You know some of the trials and tribulations of going into medicine. I wish i had that i had people who were in my corner, of course, people who were supporting me from my family members to my guidance counslor a like. I talked to you about so mr tucker, who was there for black students in you know in medical school, but to have that i’d never had a physician, you know mentor going through. You know, training and- and i wish i did because maybe some of the bumps that i came across i wouldn’t have- or it would have been easier, but it’s so important that you have that mentor or so what a wonderful thing that you still stay in touch with her and that you know she really supported you through through all of that and even now you know, even now, that’s wonderful and say, and it was a aktriel. You aunt is boco, i’m telling you et the doctor farmer, in addition to everything that you do, an incredible surgeon, a mentor business owner, yes, you’re. Also an entrepreneur you’re, the ceo of salt me. Can you tell us about this? So sot me is a company. Currently it’s an e commerce company and i’m working to get it into retail. Actually there are some things coming down the pike that i can’t talk about, but i’m super excited about, but sat me as a company that i started about three years ago and it really came about because of my patience. I had one patient who came in a really difficult sinus patient who’s had her as a patient, but just her sinus disease was really difficult to treat. She has something called samter tried and but she’s one of those patients who’s really active in her medical care. She came in and talked to me about halo therapy or stop therapy. Have you have you ever heard of halo therapy or soft therapy doctor? I don’t know if you have or not, but it’s it’s really started in in the european countries, but it’s where you’re inhaling and aerosolized medical grade sot that you’re inhaling for treatments and it kind it’s supposed to mimic what so cave minors in europe trees experience it never had the pulmonary disease at the sinus and apergy diseases that other people did, and it was all thought because it was it had to do with the inhalation of this of the sot. But anyway she came in, and she told me all about that, and i think that this would be something good for her sinuses. I really did not know anything about it, so i did some investigating. I pulled some studies from europe. I went to a salt therapy spa that was, he heard that we only had one at the time met. The owner went through a session to see what it was all about and after getting the european research, i really thought that this was something that was what was beneficial and could be an agrivance treatment for my patients. So that really spurred me to think well, how can i image incorporate salt? You know into products that would be beneficial for my patients at home. I also see a lot of patients who get addicted to the decongestant sprays over the counter and it’s really difficult to get them off of those types of addicting nasal sprays. So i came up with a formula for a nasal aroma inhaler that incorporates himalayan sea salt. That’s infused with seven different, essential oils that i chose for their ability to treat seasonal symptoms and help with nasal congestion, and that’s how the inhaler you know was born. Essentially, and now i have one for adults. I have one for children and i have one for women who are pregnant or nursing and then other products, skin care product line came along with a cocoa butter. That’s infused with himalayan see son, it’s very healing and moist urizen and nourishing for the skin, as well as salt scrubs, and i’m now in research and development with a hip certified facility in pennsylvania, where i’m lar working on a cd line that will be launching hopefully by the end of this year. So that’s my entrepot, my side, hustle! You know you got to have a shot uso, it’s not my s, so that is really transforming into a infuses. So that’s where, where salt me is right now and i’m i’m developing salt me even as a full time, surgeon but r farmer. Thank you so much for joining us on the show. Thank you for sharing about your life and your career and the amazing things you accomplish and you’re continuing to do. Where can people get a hold of you? Where can they find as sult me so i can be reached through social media on instagram. My instagram page is door knows best. That’s d r nose nose best dr nose best. You can find me through instagram, as well as tick tock. I’ve become a little addicted to dictio, see if you go, i go i at age, their both doctor knows best and you can learn all about some or even enjoy the products of for some. If you go to www got so me a com that salt, thank you again regarding, as for all you’ve shared. Thank you so much for having me. I am very honored that you would invite me on to your show, may be so much black doctor’s podcast is not proven, volunteer passion project spring home next week for another episode. Last fred, your friendly neet